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Celeste Davis's avatar

Wow are our stories similar! (Minus the international best selling author part 😜) I’m one year behind- I’m 40 and this exact same revelation hit me in 2023. Been talking about it ever since

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Indeed, I feel very connected to what you are writing! One thing I noticed is that for me to take this journey seriously, I had to accept that there would be members of my community who would feel offended, betrayed, or simply uninterested in this leg of my journey. On the other hand, I am finding new traveling companions from ALL walks of life... and that is exciting.

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Celeste Davis's avatar

So true!

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Abigail A Mlinar Burns's avatar

Gosh same with you both! As I was working as a feminist activist with a ā€œmale tearsā€ pin on my coat, I had an eerie feeling I was destined to work with men. Pregnant with my first boy in 2020, I started reckoning with a similar prompt to self.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

It's a journey indeed!

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Andrew Errant's avatar

"Acknowledging that men are in pain does not negate the pain of women. By listening to each other, by working in good faith towards our reciprocal liberation, we can build a genuinely new world."

Thank you for writing this.

It has helped me find the words to explain so many of my thoughts. Patriarchy hurts us all, men just don't see it because they haven't had to. It's why I'm writing more to these men. Men like me, who have the capacity to change.

I look forward to your new book!

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Thank you so much Shun!

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bevan's avatar

Hi Francesca, I really enjoyed reading this and wanted to thank you for the reminder to bring compassion into my everyday relationships. As a man I don’t always find it easy/natural/intuitive to lean into the often vulnerable, awkward and ambiguous nature of true communication and connection. Your writing inspires me to keep going! Thanks for putting this out into the world.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Thanks! I’m glad to hear that.

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Maria Brubaker's avatar

Thank you for naming and validating the assholery of men while still redirecting the conversation toward compassion.

A few years ago, I was reading a book and came across a discussion about how men experience shame differently than women. At the time, I had no idea how much men silently struggled. I had believed the common narratives we’re taught—that men are less emotional by nature or simply wired that way. That book opened my eyes and completely shifted how I saw things.

My son was a toddler then, and I realized how important it was to understand the quiet, internal challenges men face because I want to be able to support him as he grows. It also made me reflect on the unspoken expectations I had placed on my husband, how I had unknowingly made him responsible for my emotional wellbeing.

As an LCSW, I’ve become more and more drawn to working with men. I’m passionate about helping them question the pressures of modern masculinity and guiding them toward deeper emotional awareness. I encourage them to explore their felt experiences and develop emotional language so they can connect more fully with themselves and others.

Having this greater awareness has strengthened my marriage and deepened my therapeutic work with men and it brings me hope.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Thanks a lot Maria! I would love to know what you think about the episode I just published about patriarchal women in White Lotus season 3. Your point of view would be important, given your experience as a therapist. https://boysofthefuture.substack.com/p/in-white-lotus-3-women-make-us-uncomfortable

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Maria Brubaker's avatar

This looks great! I will totally look into it and get back with you.

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Shana James's avatar

Thank you so much for this wise perspective. As a woman who has coached men in their love lives for 20 years, I know there are incredible men out there, and I too have found that compassion is the way to keep my heart open, and the doorway to healing and connections that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

I’m so glad to hear that! And I definitely would love to know more about what you learned!

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Shana James's avatar

I'd love to connect and hear and share more! If you want that let me know the best way to make it happen :). I can't message you on LinkedIn but I think you can message me: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shana-james-3004065/

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John R's avatar

Well said!

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Harper Evelyn's avatar

Thank you so much for writing this. It speaks my heart so perfectly. It gives me hope for the future. I'm so grateful to have come upon it.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Thanks a lot Harper! For me it was necessary the moment I chose to write a book for boys. I felt that so many of the books for boys started from a place of suspicion... almost as if the author expected boys to be bad and had to convince them that being "good" was better. And I did not like that posture. I needed to find a different source for my writing. That is how "Stellar Stories for Boys of the Future" was conceived. I hope you'll like it.

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Harper Evelyn's avatar

That's such a critical distinction. I'm so glad you were able to fill that void when you saw that it existed!

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Jeremy Mohler's avatar

This is so so so good! Thank you for sharing your journey with this.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Thank you Jeremy!

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Lizanne M's avatar

I loved your Rebel Girls books and am excited about the series for boys. When will your books be available at a non Amazon seller?

Thanks!

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Hi Lizanne! I’m working towards that. Right now it’s possible to pre-order only on Amazon, but hopefully later the books will be available everywhere else too.

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Andrea's avatar

Francesca,

Thank you for creating this space for discussion.

I’m a man, I’m an engineer, when I hear someone having a problem I jump at problem solving without even a second for expressing empathy, and every time I watch ā€œAnne of Green Gablesā€ I cry as a fountain. I’m not able to say for sure if my ā€œpathological problem solvingā€ is related to me being a man or an engineer, but I’m quite confident the cultural pressure on men not to feel or display emotions failed big time on me. (Please note that I’m not saying that this pressure does not exist, only that I’ve been luckier than most man about it) So, I would not say that my propension to problem solving is related to me not being able to feel or display emotions. Trying to fix problems is my way to show I care. I’m sorry that you see this as me not caring.

If I had to state my needs as a man, I would surely mention being accepted and (when appropriate) appreciated and, of course, I could also use some freedom from sexist stereotypes. Putting all together, an example of statement that would have fulfilled my needs could have been: ā€œI see that some people are more inclined to empathize, and some to problem solving. In my personal experience, I encountered more women of the first type and more men of the second type, but it doesn’t have to be necessarily so. The important thing is that being different doesn’t mean that someone is broken or defective. I know that getting problem solving when you need empathy can be quite frustrating, but it is usually easy to predict which response I will get, so I can always ask to different people depending on what I need or, if strictly necessary, I can ā€œsqueezeā€ some empathy from a problem solver by being very explicit on my needs (and maybe even training them a bit šŸ˜‰).ā€

The way I read your article, which is my personal interpretation and may be different from your intention, is: ā€œMen are different from women, therefore they are defective, but don’t worry, I think I have found the reason and the cure, so I think we can excuse them and try to fix themā€.

I don’t see this as fitting my needs of acceptance (in fact, I feel tolerated more than accepted), and I feel a bit embarrassed, because I see that you are doing your best to advocate for me and still the result is not what I need.

The fact is, I even wonder if you should advocate for me at all. One thing that I think I can get from this conversation is that many women have problems accepting man, otherwise this conversation would not exist in the first place. (Please note that I’m not saying than man have no part in it, or that the vice versa is not also true). If this is the case, why don’t you just say so? I mean saying it to me, instead of talking of how I make you uncomfortable with other women. Of course, it’s not a thing that makes me happy, but you know what? It’s still ok! We can talk about it together and maybe understand each other a little more.

I think that empathy can naturally flourish in an honest, even though maybe difficult, conversation, much more easily than by pleading for it. What do you think?

Rereading your article, I’m afraid I went a bit off topic. Please be so kind to keep with you any part you feel relevant and forget the rest.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Hi Andrea, I'm afraid my point didn't get across very well, if your understanding is that I consider men defective. I consider our culture defective, and I thought the culture we created around women and men is defective and needs fixing, and that is what I have been trying to do with my work at Rebel Girls first, and now what I am trying to do with Boys of the Future. Just like I did not buy that women were not in leadership positions because they were "naturally submissive", I do not buy that men are responsible for 95% of violent crimes because they are "naturally aggressive". I am an advocate for gender equality and my work aims at framing gender equality as a journey of mutual liberation from stereotypes that have failed men, women, and everyone in between.

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Andrea's avatar

Hi Francesca, thank you very much for your reply. I agree that our culture needs some fixing, and I appreciate your efforts in this direction. I wish that we can all define together ā€œhowā€ to fix it by mutual understanding rather than having different groups deciding things on their own and trying to push their decisions onto others.

I wonder if ā€œgender equalityā€ is the best way to phrase your intentions, compared to ā€œgender equityā€. I also wonder if I’m more oriented toward equality or equity myself: I just googled these two terms to check their difference in meaning, and I think I will take some time to reflect on this.

In both cases, this expression is a bit generic, and it may mean different things to different people. I’m interested in understanding your point of view in more detail. I suggest doing it like this: I will try to summarize mine and I ask you to state the differences between yours and mine. The disadvantage is that checklists are boring. The advantages are that I won’t bother you with endless questions and you will benefit from some transparency from my side. Just to avoid misunderstandings, I don’t consider my point of view as any better than anyone else’s, I change it with time myself and I don’t want to convince anyone of anything. As I said, it’s just a reference for discussion.

I consider gender differentiated behavior as a result of roughly three kinds of factors: biology, pressure from gender related social norms and individual preferences.

Distinguishing the last two is a bit tricky. I consider it ā€œsocial normsā€ when one behavior or its opposite are socially sanctioned in some way (typically by disapproval), and ā€œindividual preferencesā€ otherwise. Some people do not differentiate at all. Some people consider it ā€œsocial normsā€ whenever there is a statistical difference between genders.

My distinction makes sense to me, because I would like to minimize social pressure towards gender stereotypes while ensuring that all the range of admissible behaviors is available to anyone. In other words, I don’t have any problem with stereotypical behaviors, and neither with anti-stereotypical behaviors, as long as nobody is pushed into them and chooses them by their own will.

My view about this has changed a bit over time. Just a few years ago I was considering male or female just like blond or brown-haired: why should it matter? Why should people of different genders behave differently at all? Later I realized that me being a man had a relatively low impact on the image that I have of myself, and I was pushing my attitude onto others as well. Then I realized that for other people gender was a more important part of their identity and was therefore willing to differentiate themselves, a bit like when you choose to wear a religious symbol or a scarf with the colors of your favorite team, and I learned to respect that as well.

About biology, I try to rely as little as possible on any kind of assumption. This means that I don’t assume that biology matters, but I don’t assume that it doesn’t matter as well. I think that biology is so tightly intertwined with culture that it is difficult to separate, but we should also be open to the possibility of influences when applying the same standard to different things would seem unfair. Of course, there are people who strongly believe that biology matters a lot, and people who believe that just considering a possible impact of biology is discriminatory by itself.

When assessing equity (or equality), I tend to focus on each single person rather than on average by gender. For instance, I think we all acknowledge that leaving one’s job for a long period exposes people to a high risk of unemployment, especially when the world is running so fast and becoming outdated is so easy. I think that the highest priority issue is ensuring that all these people can get back to work, rather than ensuring that the people who remain employed are equally distributed between each gender.

Talking about violence, I consider it spreading among people like fire in a forest. You can’t focus on saving the trees of a given species, or fighting the flames of a given height, or you won’t save anything at all. You must stop the fire wherever it is, before it spreads any further. This opinion of mine is one of the least popular these days, and I see most people focusing on some trees and some fires.

I hope I have not been too boring or upsetting.

When describing the differences in your point of view, if possible, I would like you to also describe how these differences make you feel (for instance, if they make you worried, scared, perplexed, confused, upset…). If we want to create a safe space for discussion, understanding how you feel is not less important than understanding what you think.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

You’ll find plenty of observations about how I feel about all this and about gender in this newsletter and in the Italian one, Maschi del Futuro.

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Andrea's avatar

Ok, thanks. As long as you don’t find anything I wrote upsetting, I’m fine.

Then I would like to go back to my original post. I will try to break it down into pieces, since I don’t think you got where I would have liked your feedback.

1) The main point I was trying to make is that you are advocating about offering compassion to men, while I think that what men need is acceptance, not compassion. Why is this not relevant to you?

2) Is the (unanswered) demand of acceptance from men something new to you?

3) After your correction of my rephrasing, what I still get is ā€œjumping into problem solving is obviously not the right thing to do, but it’s not men’s fault, it’s a cultural problemā€. If this is still not what you meant, please feel free to rephrase it again. Whatever it is, I’m quite confident that you didn’t say: ā€œI accept jumping into problem solving as a valid way for any person to show they careā€. Can you feel how profoundly emotionally different these sentences are, or do you think I’m making a fuss over nothing? (Of course, I know the fact by itself is of little relevance. I’m using this example only because it is the one mentioned in your article).

4) While you are reading the point above, you might feel like you are being guilt tripped into declaring that you accept men. This is not what I intend to do. The point I want to make is that true acceptance cannot be extorted by guilt tripping or, unlike compassion, by a moving narrative. Empathic communication, one whose aim is not to decide who is right or wrong but to achieve mutual understanding, seems to me the only way to reach true mutual acceptance. Do you see any alternative? If so, which? If not, how can we achieve it?

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LastBlueDog's avatar

Why do you think your stories will resonate with boys? You not being a man and having to apparently work pretty hard to feel any sense of compassion for boys and men? Generally speaking I’m extremely skeptical of feminist advice to men on how to be since the answer usually seems to be ā€˜be more like women’, what direction are you coming from and from where do you draw the understanding of men that would be necessary for a book like this to work?

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Hello! Thanks for your question. First of all let me say that the book is already out in Italian, Danish, and Brazilian Portuguese, so I know it resonates with boys based on the response from readers in these countries. There are two main reasons why I spent so much time working on this: 1) I am a professional author, this is my 18th children’s book. Working to find the key to tackle complex issues with kids is what I have been working on for the past 15 years; 2) I am a queer person. This means that I am a girl who always saw herself in male characters while growing up. This made me interiorize the need to save the women I was with, to be the strong, reliable part of the couple, to provide, to be the brave one etc.. I believe the beauty of art is precisely the love, and the effort, and the dedication you put into understanding others, and the miracle is that sometimes in that effort you can catch a glimpse of a part of yourself. Reminding ourselves of our shared humanity is the reason why I write, and it’s why I am so excited about the things this book is already doing in the world. If you read it, let me know what you think!

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Lance Walker's avatar

Well, I’m relieved that you’ve decided men and boys have a right to exist. Also, congrats on admitting that you were considering ā€œeliminatingā€ us due to your bigoted resentment… most feminists deny that.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Just to be clear: I have *never* in my life considered "eliminating" anyone, let alone advocated for it. Nor did I have a doubt that boys or men had a right to exist. What I mean is that sometimes I have felt so disheartened that it almost seemed impossible that we could find a way to live peacefully together. That's all.

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Lance Walker's avatar

Yes, feminism tends to inflict such resentment upon its adherents. Fortunately for me, I have always, and will always, treat people as the individuals they are rather than a manifestation of some collective defined by my ideological presuppositions.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Let me rephrase for you "I treat people as individuals, except if they are feminists, in which case I believe it's fair to generalize and distribute blame as I see fit."

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Lance Walker's avatar

An ideology is not an immutable characteristic, you have adopted it at your own discretion. And, forgive me, for coming on perhaps a little strongly. I have a physiological reaction to feminist discourse because it is just so unbelievably dehumanizing to men and boys…

The fact that you feel it necessary to justify having compassion for half the world’s population is proof enough of that sad fact.

I could pretend as though it doesn’t affect me at an emotional and existential level, but that would just be dishonest.

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Francesca Cavallo's avatar

Feminism isn't a monolithic ideology. It is misleading to identify it as such. Bell Hooks, the prominent feminist I talk about in the piece, wrote about the approach I outlined here, many years ago. I strongly recommend reading "All about love" or "The will to change" if you haven't. I am not writing a piece to justify having compassion for half the population: in a world where violence against women is still an epidemic, in a world where so many women have suffered violence at the hands of a man, compassion is understandably hard to contemplate for many. I appreciate your input, as always, but let's try not to distort my words. Also, how is trashing feminists in response to this piece helping to move the ball forward? This is a genuine question that I think we should ask ourselves when we comment on pieces that are focused on reconciliation.

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Lance Walker's avatar

I have read Bell Hooks, and I’d say the same thing to her as I’ve said here to you. Feminism won’t understand me as anything more, or indeed less, than an ā€œoppressorā€, it is an ideology predicted on a perverse notion of morality and justice that pits one against the other. According to feminism, my best interest is served through the facilitation of female suffering… this is a grotesque lie, and it’s one that is responsible for both the ā€œzero sumā€ mindset and the hopeless that you described in your article.

If you want to move the ball forward, stop treating men and boys as problems to be solved by an ideology conceived in spite of us. You don’t speak of reconciliation, what you’re advocating for is MORE of the poison that has caused nothing but needless acrimony and division between the sexes.

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